<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Economics for the Story of Stuff</title>
	<atom:link href="http://steadystate.org/economics-for-the-story-of-stuff/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://steadystate.org/economics-for-the-story-of-stuff/</link>
	<description>News of the Steady State Economy</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 20 May 2012 06:34:24 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: P2P Foundation &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Four Rules against the False Abundance of the Eternal Growth Economy</title>
		<link>http://steadystate.org/economics-for-the-story-of-stuff/comment-page-1/#comment-706</link>
		<dc:creator>P2P Foundation &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Four Rules against the False Abundance of the Eternal Growth Economy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 May 2010 17:46:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://steadystate.org/?p=1643#comment-706</guid>
		<description>[...] Here is how the physical side of the Economy of the Commons should function! And below, a meditation of how one can choose for abundance over scarcity approaches by turning rival goods into non-rival ones. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Here is how the physical side of the Economy of the Commons should function! And below, a meditation of how one can choose for abundance over scarcity approaches by turning rival goods into non-rival ones. [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bronislaw Malinowski</title>
		<link>http://steadystate.org/economics-for-the-story-of-stuff/comment-page-1/#comment-589</link>
		<dc:creator>Bronislaw Malinowski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 May 2010 03:04:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://steadystate.org/?p=1643#comment-589</guid>
		<description>Julien Couvreur says that: 
&quot;Capitalism is simply a system of private property and voluntary exchange. It reflects the wants of its actors and the natural constraints. Nothing about capitalism forces a linear or faster growth.&quot;

1) There is a confusion in your statement between markets, which are systems of voluntary exchange between possessors of commodities, and capitalism, which is a system of production founded on private property and wage labour. Markets have existed long before capitalism.

2) Your description is also reductionist. Capitalism is the process of producing commodities (goods and services) from material inputs (raw or transformed materials) using tools/machines and wage labour, and selling the commodities thus produced on competitive markets for a profit. It cannot be reduced to only private property, which has also existed for a very long time.

3) There is actually a built-in incentive toward growth in the capitalist process, that I will try to explain briefly:

As I said, the commodities produced under capitalism are sold on competitive markets. Because markets are competitive, there is an incentive to produce for cheaper to outsell competitors. To produce commodities cheaper, you need to increase productivity, either by developing new production technologies, or finding more efficient ways to organize labour.

Once you increase productivity, you produce more commodities for the same capital investment. You then need to sell your extra production on the market to pocket your extra profit. And all the while, you capture extra market shares, because with increased productivity you are also able to sell each individual commodity for cheaper. Thus, competitors have to themselves increase productivity if they want to keep some market shares, and avoid going bankrupt. This means they too will eventually have to develop more efficient methods that will allow them to produce more commodities. 

Thus, because of market competition, part of your profits always needs to be invested in developing more productive methods of production. More productive methods mean an increased throughput of matter and energy in the economic system. As productivity keeps increasing, so does the throughput, and the ecological footprint of commodity production.

Thus I conclude that capitalism is not &quot;only the reflection of the preferences of individuals and the availability of various resources&quot;, but rather reflects supra-individual mechanisms that do not depend on individual wills and preferences but on systemic constraints.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Julien Couvreur says that:<br />
&#8220;Capitalism is simply a system of private property and voluntary exchange. It reflects the wants of its actors and the natural constraints. Nothing about capitalism forces a linear or faster growth.&#8221;</p>
<p>1) There is a confusion in your statement between markets, which are systems of voluntary exchange between possessors of commodities, and capitalism, which is a system of production founded on private property and wage labour. Markets have existed long before capitalism.</p>
<p>2) Your description is also reductionist. Capitalism is the process of producing commodities (goods and services) from material inputs (raw or transformed materials) using tools/machines and wage labour, and selling the commodities thus produced on competitive markets for a profit. It cannot be reduced to only private property, which has also existed for a very long time.</p>
<p>3) There is actually a built-in incentive toward growth in the capitalist process, that I will try to explain briefly:</p>
<p>As I said, the commodities produced under capitalism are sold on competitive markets. Because markets are competitive, there is an incentive to produce for cheaper to outsell competitors. To produce commodities cheaper, you need to increase productivity, either by developing new production technologies, or finding more efficient ways to organize labour.</p>
<p>Once you increase productivity, you produce more commodities for the same capital investment. You then need to sell your extra production on the market to pocket your extra profit. And all the while, you capture extra market shares, because with increased productivity you are also able to sell each individual commodity for cheaper. Thus, competitors have to themselves increase productivity if they want to keep some market shares, and avoid going bankrupt. This means they too will eventually have to develop more efficient methods that will allow them to produce more commodities. </p>
<p>Thus, because of market competition, part of your profits always needs to be invested in developing more productive methods of production. More productive methods mean an increased throughput of matter and energy in the economic system. As productivity keeps increasing, so does the throughput, and the ecological footprint of commodity production.</p>
<p>Thus I conclude that capitalism is not &#8220;only the reflection of the preferences of individuals and the availability of various resources&#8221;, but rather reflects supra-individual mechanisms that do not depend on individual wills and preferences but on systemic constraints.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Charles Fourier</title>
		<link>http://steadystate.org/economics-for-the-story-of-stuff/comment-page-1/#comment-531</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Fourier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 May 2010 13:53:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://steadystate.org/?p=1643#comment-531</guid>
		<description>Hi Zooey,

Great questions.  You state:

&quot;But how can we organize the meta level, i.e. everything that needs to be provided for everyone – health, education, water, electricity, technological infrastructure – in your model? Or does it assume that we revert to subsistence farming?&quot;

Organizing the meta-level is a process that I think would fail as it has failed time and time again (will explain this below).  Because, it is too difficult to organize our lives--while still meeting the collective needs of a particular community, within a particular temporal and spatial environment and/or specific to the site of operation (e.g. modes of production comparable to eco-system stabilizing needs)--from a top down framework that is far removed from local/bioregional socio-cultural, economic, ecological and political proclivities.  Recall my original post when I stated the following:

&quot;We have a plethora of “people” (all dynamic in their own right) with different personalities, conceptions about life, conceptions about governance, conceptions about communicative actions, etc. that create situations of constant conflict and confrontation. These differences are conceptually and ideologically driven; not driven by biology or physics like forest and other ecosystems. Further, these differences can also be rooted in epistemological disagreements to mobilizing armies for land bases and last remaining resources.&quot;

The process of meta-level projects in this respect are not only exclusive to certain populations with a particular worldview, but also fail to see and act beyond their own self-interest so-to-speak.  For example, many meta-level projects start off with the best intentions in mind in order to provide the services you mentioned in your last post (recall the Bolsheviks coming to power after the Russian Revolution--although &quot;best&quot; intentions could be disputed here).  But, after time passes, we begin to see a shift in the direction of a meta-level project from one of &quot;providing and/or allocating services&quot; to one of salvaging its own existence despite its contemporary relevance or effectiveness in providing those services.  The US government is another great example of this when we see &quot;national security&quot; (at least what elites in Washington consider to be national security) and burgeoning military spending to fuel American economic and political hegemony around the globe having far more importance--thus, outweighing and discrediting the need of basic services for everyday people in order to survive in such a meta-level predicament where they (e.g. local communities) are not directly responsible and/or in direct control of those basic services.  This is driven by those who have to maintain the meta-level project in order to maintain their elite status or to perpetuate the status quo--in this case the needs of multinational/transnational corporations and the military industrial complex.  

With respect to a reversion to subsistence farming, this is a bit of a stretch on my meaning I think.  Subsistence living may be of interest to some, but others may still want to be interconnected (or federated) with other &quot;like-minded&quot; communities in order to share the burden of producing and distributing basic amenities to maintain their respective bioregions and be resilient to the social and ecological changes that will inevitably come their way.  Therefore, if we design our bioregions for abundance and resilience (for all life, not just human life), we can begin to move beyond the subsistence concept for individual families or communities, and begin finding ways to distribute the surpluses we receive from designing for abundance and resilience to those that need access to those surpluses.  Where drought, floods or other natural disasters impact one bioregion, surpluses from another may be able to fill in the gaps.  Don&#039;t know for sure, just thinking it through. 

You second set of questions:
 
&quot;And how can we work towards this politically? I mean, what kind of changes do we need to make now to move in the right direction?&quot;

Short answer.  Designing for abundance and resilience at the local level.  Begin turning local government into a bastion for local economic development, but from the grassroots, not from the interests of present day &quot;entrenched&quot; political and economic entities/institutions.  I like to think of Thoreau&#039;s four basic necessities (but i will provide a fifth) when considering this.  Thoreau&#039;s four basic necessities are food, shelter, clothing, and fuel.  The obvious fifth I would like to add is fresh, potable water.  This is where to start I think.  We need to start organizing our local communities around these five basic amenities, but organize them in a way where the &quot;local&quot; community in question has direct ownership and/or &quot;use rights&quot; of/to those basic amenities within their respective bioregions--recall earlier post where I describe this.  

All other needs or wants a particular community (within the context of ecological limits of course) may desire could also be managed locally, or could be managed by the other &quot;like-minded&quot; communities I described, to barter or trade based on agreed upon conditions between the interested parties/communities.  Agreed upon conditions, I think, should be based on new understandings of &quot;value&quot; well beyond a simple price (in currency) a particular person/community is willing to pay in order to get what is valuable to them.  

This relationship is reciprocating because both or multiple parties have a vested interest (not defined by finance or currency exchanges) in what has been deemed &quot;valuable&quot; between them.  Then comes the most difficult part.  How do we begin to measure &quot;value&quot; in new ways that foster reciprocating relationships of equal worth to the parties involved?  

Wow!  What a hard project to tackle.  But, one of necessity I think given the state of world affairs today. 

Again, I welcome your thoughts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Zooey,</p>
<p>Great questions.  You state:</p>
<p>&#8220;But how can we organize the meta level, i.e. everything that needs to be provided for everyone – health, education, water, electricity, technological infrastructure – in your model? Or does it assume that we revert to subsistence farming?&#8221;</p>
<p>Organizing the meta-level is a process that I think would fail as it has failed time and time again (will explain this below).  Because, it is too difficult to organize our lives&#8211;while still meeting the collective needs of a particular community, within a particular temporal and spatial environment and/or specific to the site of operation (e.g. modes of production comparable to eco-system stabilizing needs)&#8211;from a top down framework that is far removed from local/bioregional socio-cultural, economic, ecological and political proclivities.  Recall my original post when I stated the following:</p>
<p>&#8220;We have a plethora of “people” (all dynamic in their own right) with different personalities, conceptions about life, conceptions about governance, conceptions about communicative actions, etc. that create situations of constant conflict and confrontation. These differences are conceptually and ideologically driven; not driven by biology or physics like forest and other ecosystems. Further, these differences can also be rooted in epistemological disagreements to mobilizing armies for land bases and last remaining resources.&#8221;</p>
<p>The process of meta-level projects in this respect are not only exclusive to certain populations with a particular worldview, but also fail to see and act beyond their own self-interest so-to-speak.  For example, many meta-level projects start off with the best intentions in mind in order to provide the services you mentioned in your last post (recall the Bolsheviks coming to power after the Russian Revolution&#8211;although &#8220;best&#8221; intentions could be disputed here).  But, after time passes, we begin to see a shift in the direction of a meta-level project from one of &#8220;providing and/or allocating services&#8221; to one of salvaging its own existence despite its contemporary relevance or effectiveness in providing those services.  The US government is another great example of this when we see &#8220;national security&#8221; (at least what elites in Washington consider to be national security) and burgeoning military spending to fuel American economic and political hegemony around the globe having far more importance&#8211;thus, outweighing and discrediting the need of basic services for everyday people in order to survive in such a meta-level predicament where they (e.g. local communities) are not directly responsible and/or in direct control of those basic services.  This is driven by those who have to maintain the meta-level project in order to maintain their elite status or to perpetuate the status quo&#8211;in this case the needs of multinational/transnational corporations and the military industrial complex.  </p>
<p>With respect to a reversion to subsistence farming, this is a bit of a stretch on my meaning I think.  Subsistence living may be of interest to some, but others may still want to be interconnected (or federated) with other &#8220;like-minded&#8221; communities in order to share the burden of producing and distributing basic amenities to maintain their respective bioregions and be resilient to the social and ecological changes that will inevitably come their way.  Therefore, if we design our bioregions for abundance and resilience (for all life, not just human life), we can begin to move beyond the subsistence concept for individual families or communities, and begin finding ways to distribute the surpluses we receive from designing for abundance and resilience to those that need access to those surpluses.  Where drought, floods or other natural disasters impact one bioregion, surpluses from another may be able to fill in the gaps.  Don&#8217;t know for sure, just thinking it through. </p>
<p>You second set of questions:</p>
<p>&#8220;And how can we work towards this politically? I mean, what kind of changes do we need to make now to move in the right direction?&#8221;</p>
<p>Short answer.  Designing for abundance and resilience at the local level.  Begin turning local government into a bastion for local economic development, but from the grassroots, not from the interests of present day &#8220;entrenched&#8221; political and economic entities/institutions.  I like to think of Thoreau&#8217;s four basic necessities (but i will provide a fifth) when considering this.  Thoreau&#8217;s four basic necessities are food, shelter, clothing, and fuel.  The obvious fifth I would like to add is fresh, potable water.  This is where to start I think.  We need to start organizing our local communities around these five basic amenities, but organize them in a way where the &#8220;local&#8221; community in question has direct ownership and/or &#8220;use rights&#8221; of/to those basic amenities within their respective bioregions&#8211;recall earlier post where I describe this.  </p>
<p>All other needs or wants a particular community (within the context of ecological limits of course) may desire could also be managed locally, or could be managed by the other &#8220;like-minded&#8221; communities I described, to barter or trade based on agreed upon conditions between the interested parties/communities.  Agreed upon conditions, I think, should be based on new understandings of &#8220;value&#8221; well beyond a simple price (in currency) a particular person/community is willing to pay in order to get what is valuable to them.  </p>
<p>This relationship is reciprocating because both or multiple parties have a vested interest (not defined by finance or currency exchanges) in what has been deemed &#8220;valuable&#8221; between them.  Then comes the most difficult part.  How do we begin to measure &#8220;value&#8221; in new ways that foster reciprocating relationships of equal worth to the parties involved?  </p>
<p>Wow!  What a hard project to tackle.  But, one of necessity I think given the state of world affairs today. </p>
<p>Again, I welcome your thoughts.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Julien Couvreur</title>
		<link>http://steadystate.org/economics-for-the-story-of-stuff/comment-page-1/#comment-530</link>
		<dc:creator>Julien Couvreur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 May 2010 07:54:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://steadystate.org/?p=1643#comment-530</guid>
		<description>&quot;The planet can’t sustain our pattern of consumption, but people get steamrolled in the economy when consumption slows down.&quot;

Actually, this last part is a common misconception. The economy can adjust to whatever level of consumption people choose to have. Capitalism, in its pure form, is only the reflection of the preferences of individuals and the availability of various resources.
It is true however that misguided economists and perhaps well-meaning politicians tend to promote consumption policies.

In fact, reducing consumption is positive for the economy and the standards of living, as it spawns savings, which can be used to improve the productivity of the the production structure. This allows to produce more and better goods and services with fewer resources.

If people want to protect resources, they simply need to aquire them and protect them. Private reserves have saved many endangered animals in Africa.
Similarly, as some resources get depleted, the production structure will adjust the best it can. This may mean lowered standards of living, this could mean a smaller human population, etc. 

A comment above claims that the problem is capitalism. I am curious to know what the commenter thinks capitalism is. Capitalism is simply a system of private property and voluntary exchange. It reflects the wants of its actors and the natural constraints.
Nothing about capitalism forces a linear or faster growth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The planet can’t sustain our pattern of consumption, but people get steamrolled in the economy when consumption slows down.&#8221;</p>
<p>Actually, this last part is a common misconception. The economy can adjust to whatever level of consumption people choose to have. Capitalism, in its pure form, is only the reflection of the preferences of individuals and the availability of various resources.<br />
It is true however that misguided economists and perhaps well-meaning politicians tend to promote consumption policies.</p>
<p>In fact, reducing consumption is positive for the economy and the standards of living, as it spawns savings, which can be used to improve the productivity of the the production structure. This allows to produce more and better goods and services with fewer resources.</p>
<p>If people want to protect resources, they simply need to aquire them and protect them. Private reserves have saved many endangered animals in Africa.<br />
Similarly, as some resources get depleted, the production structure will adjust the best it can. This may mean lowered standards of living, this could mean a smaller human population, etc. </p>
<p>A comment above claims that the problem is capitalism. I am curious to know what the commenter thinks capitalism is. Capitalism is simply a system of private property and voluntary exchange. It reflects the wants of its actors and the natural constraints.<br />
Nothing about capitalism forces a linear or faster growth.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: zooey</title>
		<link>http://steadystate.org/economics-for-the-story-of-stuff/comment-page-1/#comment-524</link>
		<dc:creator>zooey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 May 2010 02:26:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://steadystate.org/?p=1643#comment-524</guid>
		<description>Hi Charles,
thanks for taking the time to explain this. I understand what kind of outcome you envisage, and I can see how people can work towards this on an individual and group level, organising their own economic lives cooperatively. But how can we organise the meta level, i.e. everything that needs to be provided for everyone - health, education, water, electricity, technological infratructure - in your model? Or does it assume that we revert to subsistence farming?
And how can we work towards this politically? I mean, what kind of changes do we need to make now to move in the right direction? 
Would love to hear what you think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Charles,<br />
thanks for taking the time to explain this. I understand what kind of outcome you envisage, and I can see how people can work towards this on an individual and group level, organising their own economic lives cooperatively. But how can we organise the meta level, i.e. everything that needs to be provided for everyone &#8211; health, education, water, electricity, technological infratructure &#8211; in your model? Or does it assume that we revert to subsistence farming?<br />
And how can we work towards this politically? I mean, what kind of changes do we need to make now to move in the right direction?<br />
Would love to hear what you think.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Charles Fourier</title>
		<link>http://steadystate.org/economics-for-the-story-of-stuff/comment-page-1/#comment-523</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Fourier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 May 2010 21:46:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://steadystate.org/?p=1643#comment-523</guid>
		<description>Hi Zooey:

Sorry, i have not responded sooner.  I don&#039;t get to this blog that often.

With respect to my meaning of &quot;complete politico-social decentralization and complete freedom from competitive market arrangements and wage earning relationships&quot; I am referring to the following:

Complete political and social decentralization is just the opposite of the &quot;centrally planned&quot; social structures we have today.  By decentralization, I mean the dismantling of the current globally-locked, centrally planned, liberal (economic not political) corporate mercantile republics with smaller factions of non-authoritarian, non-hierarchically based social structures, contained within specific bioregions, that are organized within the watersheds they reside.  And, where the means of production are equally divided based on egalitarian, grassroots decision making processes that are directly dependent upon a given family or communities cultural, familial and material needs.  These faction&#039;s populations and resource uses would be proportional to the carrying capacity (Carrying capacity refers to the number of individuals who can be supported in a given area within natural resource limits, and without degrading the natural social, cultural and economic environment for present and future generations) of the bioregion in which they reside.

You might now ask: How does this differ from the bioregionalism concept? Here is Peter Berg&#039;s definition: http://www.diggers.org/freecitynews/_disc1/00000017.htm  Here is Wiki&#039;s definition: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioregionalism  Sorry for the long links.  Don&#039;t know how to do just a word link that I see often.

Bioregionalism by definition and practice does not address what I mentioned before.  I may be wrong, but I think the steady stater&#039;s are falling victim to the same social-cultural exploitative state--which I think comes from their neglect or oversight of the situation and not acknowledging the constant conflict and confrontation that comes from the same or similar hierarchical socio-economic relationships that have been violently perpetuated by elites since the beginning of the so-called neolithic revolution and into our present socio-economic milieu.  With the change to more sedentary lives, we became more stratified and the division of labor and hierarchical class system was the end result.  We can, within physical limits, still maintain sedentary lives (refer to carrying capacity above), but we have to throw out the division of labor and hierarchy scenario that has divided communities based on people&#039;s individual economic contribution (gauged as class) to the communities in question and what has been the root cause (not to be mistaken as the only cause) of the constant conflict and confrontation we experience still today.  

This is why I stated the following in my last post:  &quot;I don’t see how these relationships would change in a steady state economy where concepts of domination, privilege and class struggle would still persist if our socio-economic relationships do not change.&quot;

And, this:  &quot;If we don’t change from competitive socio-economic structures to cooperative ones with elements of counter-power built-in to reduce concentration of wealth and power, what we see today on a global scale would just repeat itself on a more local scale.&quot;

Most of us haven&#039;t the slightest clue how to create and maintain cooperative economic and social relationships.  Because, we have been taught all of our lives that a competitive environment breeds some of the most innovative technological discoveries  (which leads to a linear understanding of progress), and that it is a component of &quot;human nature&quot; (see Hobbes&#039; Leviathon--though discredited by anthropologists long ago) to organize social, political and economic relationships based on a competitive bases---as was mistaken by many in the 19th and 20th centuries which led to a new form of &quot;scientific racism&quot; and the subjugation of so-called &quot;primitive societies&quot; to the needs and whims of wealthy, land-owning (or stealing rather) elites of the Western world.  All this in order to subjugate people and places to technological prowess, exploitation and progress.

So, with limits to economic growth staring us right in the face, we must begin to disband the global capitalist system to engage in a local, non-hierarchical, self-reliant, self-determined, decentralized, resilient system based on cooperative relationships (e.g. mutual aid) within identified bioregions that are mindful of the particular bioregion&#039;s carrying capacity and ecological limits all along the way.  

To accomplish this would be extremely difficult and to some would be utopian, and highly improbable, but we have to start thinking and acting collectively in these ways if we are to mitigate the combined threats of corporate domination of the political process, disproportionate political and economic representation, social disintegration, dissolution of the nuclear family, declining energy availability, climate change, biodiversity loss, ocean acidification, disruption or depletion of soil, hydrological, carbon, phosphorous, nitrogen cycles, etc. 

I hope this has helped clarify my meaning to my earlier post.  It is difficult, from top of mind, to cover all aspects of my meaning, but it explains the crux of my argument pretty well I think.

Would love to know your or others thoughts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Zooey:</p>
<p>Sorry, i have not responded sooner.  I don&#8217;t get to this blog that often.</p>
<p>With respect to my meaning of &#8220;complete politico-social decentralization and complete freedom from competitive market arrangements and wage earning relationships&#8221; I am referring to the following:</p>
<p>Complete political and social decentralization is just the opposite of the &#8220;centrally planned&#8221; social structures we have today.  By decentralization, I mean the dismantling of the current globally-locked, centrally planned, liberal (economic not political) corporate mercantile republics with smaller factions of non-authoritarian, non-hierarchically based social structures, contained within specific bioregions, that are organized within the watersheds they reside.  And, where the means of production are equally divided based on egalitarian, grassroots decision making processes that are directly dependent upon a given family or communities cultural, familial and material needs.  These faction&#8217;s populations and resource uses would be proportional to the carrying capacity (Carrying capacity refers to the number of individuals who can be supported in a given area within natural resource limits, and without degrading the natural social, cultural and economic environment for present and future generations) of the bioregion in which they reside.</p>
<p>You might now ask: How does this differ from the bioregionalism concept? Here is Peter Berg&#8217;s definition: <a href="http://www.diggers.org/freecitynews/_disc1/00000017.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.diggers.org/freecitynews/_disc1/00000017.htm</a>  Here is Wiki&#8217;s definition: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioregionalism" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioregionalism</a>  Sorry for the long links.  Don&#8217;t know how to do just a word link that I see often.</p>
<p>Bioregionalism by definition and practice does not address what I mentioned before.  I may be wrong, but I think the steady stater&#8217;s are falling victim to the same social-cultural exploitative state&#8211;which I think comes from their neglect or oversight of the situation and not acknowledging the constant conflict and confrontation that comes from the same or similar hierarchical socio-economic relationships that have been violently perpetuated by elites since the beginning of the so-called neolithic revolution and into our present socio-economic milieu.  With the change to more sedentary lives, we became more stratified and the division of labor and hierarchical class system was the end result.  We can, within physical limits, still maintain sedentary lives (refer to carrying capacity above), but we have to throw out the division of labor and hierarchy scenario that has divided communities based on people&#8217;s individual economic contribution (gauged as class) to the communities in question and what has been the root cause (not to be mistaken as the only cause) of the constant conflict and confrontation we experience still today.  </p>
<p>This is why I stated the following in my last post:  &#8220;I don’t see how these relationships would change in a steady state economy where concepts of domination, privilege and class struggle would still persist if our socio-economic relationships do not change.&#8221;</p>
<p>And, this:  &#8220;If we don’t change from competitive socio-economic structures to cooperative ones with elements of counter-power built-in to reduce concentration of wealth and power, what we see today on a global scale would just repeat itself on a more local scale.&#8221;</p>
<p>Most of us haven&#8217;t the slightest clue how to create and maintain cooperative economic and social relationships.  Because, we have been taught all of our lives that a competitive environment breeds some of the most innovative technological discoveries  (which leads to a linear understanding of progress), and that it is a component of &#8220;human nature&#8221; (see Hobbes&#8217; Leviathon&#8211;though discredited by anthropologists long ago) to organize social, political and economic relationships based on a competitive bases&#8212;as was mistaken by many in the 19th and 20th centuries which led to a new form of &#8220;scientific racism&#8221; and the subjugation of so-called &#8220;primitive societies&#8221; to the needs and whims of wealthy, land-owning (or stealing rather) elites of the Western world.  All this in order to subjugate people and places to technological prowess, exploitation and progress.</p>
<p>So, with limits to economic growth staring us right in the face, we must begin to disband the global capitalist system to engage in a local, non-hierarchical, self-reliant, self-determined, decentralized, resilient system based on cooperative relationships (e.g. mutual aid) within identified bioregions that are mindful of the particular bioregion&#8217;s carrying capacity and ecological limits all along the way.  </p>
<p>To accomplish this would be extremely difficult and to some would be utopian, and highly improbable, but we have to start thinking and acting collectively in these ways if we are to mitigate the combined threats of corporate domination of the political process, disproportionate political and economic representation, social disintegration, dissolution of the nuclear family, declining energy availability, climate change, biodiversity loss, ocean acidification, disruption or depletion of soil, hydrological, carbon, phosphorous, nitrogen cycles, etc. </p>
<p>I hope this has helped clarify my meaning to my earlier post.  It is difficult, from top of mind, to cover all aspects of my meaning, but it explains the crux of my argument pretty well I think.</p>
<p>Would love to know your or others thoughts.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: zooey</title>
		<link>http://steadystate.org/economics-for-the-story-of-stuff/comment-page-1/#comment-509</link>
		<dc:creator>zooey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 May 2010 06:21:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://steadystate.org/?p=1643#comment-509</guid>
		<description>To Charles Fourier: 
I agree with your analysis, but what do you suggest instead? Can you elaborate on what you mean by &quot;complete politico-social decentralization and complete freedom from competitive market arrangements and wage earning relationships&quot;? Are you suggesting central planning (which might not be a bad thing)? I would be interested to hear your thoughts (or post a link you can recommend). Thank you!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Charles Fourier:<br />
I agree with your analysis, but what do you suggest instead? Can you elaborate on what you mean by &#8220;complete politico-social decentralization and complete freedom from competitive market arrangements and wage earning relationships&#8221;? Are you suggesting central planning (which might not be a bad thing)? I would be interested to hear your thoughts (or post a link you can recommend). Thank you!!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: The story about stuff</title>
		<link>http://steadystate.org/economics-for-the-story-of-stuff/comment-page-1/#comment-506</link>
		<dc:creator>The story about stuff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 May 2010 22:07:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://steadystate.org/?p=1643#comment-506</guid>
		<description>[...] watching the above, you should also read this fine article: Economics for the Story of Stuff.   [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] watching the above, you should also read this fine article: Economics for the Story of Stuff.   [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: wendy</title>
		<link>http://steadystate.org/economics-for-the-story-of-stuff/comment-page-1/#comment-488</link>
		<dc:creator>wendy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 May 2010 05:42:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://steadystate.org/?p=1643#comment-488</guid>
		<description>http://www.ourfutureplanet.org/news/366-an-end-to-growthonomics-a-brief-review-of-the-steady-state-economics-movement

Here is a link to an article which I wrote for the OPT .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.ourfutureplanet.org/news/366-an-end-to-growthonomics-a-brief-review-of-the-steady-state-economics-movement" rel="nofollow">http://www.ourfutureplanet.org/news/366-an-end-to-growthonomics-a-brief-review-of-the-steady-state-economics-movement</a></p>
<p>Here is a link to an article which I wrote for the OPT .</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Neal Gorenflo</title>
		<link>http://steadystate.org/economics-for-the-story-of-stuff/comment-page-1/#comment-481</link>
		<dc:creator>Neal Gorenflo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 May 2010 20:26:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://steadystate.org/?p=1643#comment-481</guid>
		<description>Hi Rob, we republished your article on Shareable.net following your CC license.  Great article for our audience!
  
Here&#039;s the article:
http://shareable.net/blog/economics-for-the-story-of-stuff

Feel free to drop me a line at neal at shareable dot net if you&#039;re interested in more content sharing.  We&#039;d love to help you find new readers.   

Neal Gorenflo
Publisher
Shareable.net</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Rob, we republished your article on Shareable.net following your CC license.  Great article for our audience!</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the article:<br />
<a href="http://shareable.net/blog/economics-for-the-story-of-stuff" rel="nofollow">http://shareable.net/blog/economics-for-the-story-of-stuff</a></p>
<p>Feel free to drop me a line at neal at shareable dot net if you&#8217;re interested in more content sharing.  We&#8217;d love to help you find new readers.   </p>
<p>Neal Gorenflo<br />
Publisher<br />
Shareable.net</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

