Comments on: Two Meanings of “Economic Growth”

By: kenneth boulding

kenneth boulding — Wed, 31 Mar 2010 01:27:25 +0000

[...] this deep, if playful poem by Kenneth Boulding, a now-departed economist that reads: * Water is …Two Meanings of Economic Growth Center for the …Economist Kenneth Boulding suggested, with tongue only a little bit in cheek, that we re-label it [...]

By: Newsweek: The No-Growth Fantasy

Newsweek: The No-Growth Fantasy — Wed, 24 Mar 2010 20:02:22 +0000

[...] that is missing from macro-economics, that states that something grows to a perfect point, where further growth is actually detrimental. We need a macro-economic optimal scale, this is what regulations do – they do not stop [...]

By: Sharon Ede

Sharon Ede — Fri, 12 Mar 2010 03:09:57 +0000

Excellent that CASSE has launched this blog, and that eminent voices like Mr Herman Daly are contributors!

Concerning Professor Daly’s reference to ‘assymetric accounting’:

The public are very antagonistic about fallible accounting at the moment in the wake of the GFC – the high priests of this fiasco are being questioned by those who don’t usually concern themselves with economics.

This could be the way to talk to the public about steady state economics – ie. you thought the GFC was bad, wait until you find out about the rest of the dodgy accounting.

Daly’s phrase ‘The Greater Economy’ is a wonderful meme, and one we should make use of – people understand concepts like ‘London’ and ‘Greater London’ that London sits within.

Josh – I’d love to work four days a week. I could, except for one thing. Housing in Australia [including rental housing, with high purchase costs passed on] is ridiculous at the moment because of all the easy credit that has been pumped out into the market, with people overextending and bidding ever higher prices. Renting a [decent] place right now would eat up 50% of my wage each month – anything over 33% of your income going on housing = housing stress. Housing affordability is a big determinant of whether you can elect to drop a day and spend it on things other than work. I would love to do so – if I did not have to compete with all these fools borrowing ever more money and sending housing costs skyrocketing!

By: The price of China’s economic growth « MAKE WEALTH HISTORY

The price of China’s economic growth « MAKE WEALTH HISTORY — Tue, 09 Mar 2010 09:15:20 +0000

[...] 8 and 15 percent of our gross domestic product.” This is what Herman Daly refers to as ‘uneconomic growth‘, or “growth that increases costs faster than benefits, thereby making us [...]

By: Joshua Nelson

Joshua Nelson — Wed, 03 Mar 2010 17:09:10 +0000

Professor Daly makes a sound and astute argument, highlighting the confusion in naming all growth in the economy as “economic growth,” when in fact is has been “uneconomic” growth for some time now.

@MaryJo, another benefit of a steady state economy will be the refocusing and redistribution of energy, resources, and wealth. The new economics foundation (nef) recently released a report on redistributing work called “21 hours” (here: http://www.neweconomics.org/publications/21-hours). The concept is great and would work in any country, not just the UK. I would happily work 10% less to eliminate our 10% unemployment here in the states – there is more than enough work to go around.

Great kick off of the new blog!

Cheers,
Joshua Nelson

By: Didier Thys

Didier Thys — Wed, 03 Mar 2010 16:02:08 +0000

This looks like it will be a very instructive blog. Given that a lot of people in economic development look at economic growth (first definition) as a measure of progress for the developing world; and particulary at per capita GDP as a measure of progress out of poverty:

(1) what replaces the idea of looking at a growing economy (def 1) to determine if there are significantly more resources available to a population on a per capita basis (leaving aside the distribution issues)?; and

(2) in order to reach a steady state economy globally, does that mean that we need to reach a steady state global population and if so, do we know what the carrying capacity of the natural ecosystem is for that population?

Just trying to understand how these pieces fit together.

By: Herman Daly starts blogging, with thoughts on uneconomic growth « the nef triple crunch blog

Wed, 03 Mar 2010 11:56:40 +0000

[...] Read the entire article >> [...]

By: MaryJo Matheny

MaryJo Matheny — Tue, 02 Mar 2010 13:03:33 +0000

I believe that Mr. Daly has hit upon the crux of the matter in showing the ambiguity of the meaning of economic growth. That is probably the reason that so many people feel they cannot support a steady state economy. They observe rightly that many people who are hungry need to be fed. People without work need to have found what will benefit not just them, but the whole web of being. It is clear also that Infractructure that is in disrepair needs to be mended and replaced.

I propose that the term “economic growth”, used in the second sense, be changed to “fruitful sufficiency.” This term implies that, when everyone has what is needed, there will still be life
galore.

By: uberVU - social comments

uberVU - social comments — Tue, 02 Mar 2010 06:31:42 +0000

Social comments and analytics for this post…

This post was mentioned on Twitter by lostmoya: Daly on GDP: “We do not subtract the cost of pollution, but we do add the value of the pollution clean-up” http://bit.ly/aPGpZY...

By: Garrett Connelly

Garrett Connelly — Tue, 02 Mar 2010 03:39:28 +0000

The Daly New, way cool, very necessary, broadly needed. How broadly? Well, with a tad of patience, this Sunday, last day of February, I was pointing out some intriguing aspects of Frederick Soddy’s “Wealth, Virtual Wealth and Debt” to two thirteen year-olds, over lunch, at a ski lodge (the part about economists who avoid thinking about things like justice and entropy also avoid troubling themselves with thought but don’t add to the dignity of the subject) (the kids appreciated the wry humor). After they returned to the slopes a waitress, call her Mrs. Mom, suddenly sat down at my table and asked me, “So what should we do? Exactly.” She took pity on my momentarily speechless incomprehension and explained that she had been listening to me talk with the kids, who themselves had quite a bit to say about the world’s problems. The waitress and I talked seriously for an hour or so. She is very educated. Totally clear about how externalized profits are exemplified in honeybee economics and the ancient bacteria which made an atmosphere for us to live in. She and her husband have a small business and work to externalize profit to their community by employing and helping as small scale capitalists, and they’re proud of it. She was stoked to learn that corporatists are not capitalists and that most if not all their profits are simply the money they save from not cleaning up after themselves. The world is waiting for us to tell our story, my friends. The Daly news is needed everywhere by unexpected people. Many people are hungry for a vision of a new way, something more fun and with liberty and justice for all life forms.